ID should not be taught in schools because it's not science. The only leg ID has to stand on is complexity, which does not automatically prove a designer. Read up on the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case if you want to see how poorly ID fairs when scrutinized in a courtroom setting.
Franklin Massey
JoinedPosts by Franklin Massey
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23
2011 Miss USA Contestants Answer: Should Evolution be Taught in Schools?
by leavingwt in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay7srp7lole.
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Trying to Fade, Now they want to interview me on the SAD!!!
by burnedout ini resigned as an elder some time ago, have been working on fading, the wife is getting used to the new 'me' (not stressed, better husband and father, etc.
), been missing a lot of meetings... even received a few statements such as: 'hi burnedout, it's good to see you!!!
last sunday, i took my one of my sons to the local dragstrip to show him the races, oops missed the meeting.
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Franklin Massey
Stay classy. Just decline the offer. Avoid games. Continue your fade. Enjoy your life.
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New here - hello!
by sickandtired ini can't believe i'm actually posting here.
i've been lurking for a while and i've been having doubts about this being the "truth" for years and sometimes feel really stuck and hopeless about my situation.
i'm married to an elder (who is 110% jw) and i was for the most part raised in the "truth".
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Franklin Massey
Welcome. I live a somewhat mirrored life to yours. I recently resigned as an elder and my wife is more mentally "in" than I am. A few years ago, when I first started to voice my doubts, my wife was scared. She put up the walls common to those who have been immersed in high control groups. Granted, my approach was flawed as I was fueled by feelings of confusion and despair. I backed off, learned to balance my emotions a bit (posting here has been therapeutic), worked some internal issues out and focused on being the best husband I can be. Presently, she is slowly awakening and has grown comfortable with having her own ideas independent of the WT Org. It turns out that she has always "made the 'truth' her own." I, on the other hand, was the more imbalanced one in terms of how I perceived JW doctrine. I had a hard time letting go. We also are learning that when it comes to spirituality, no two people can be on the exact same page at the same time. It truly is an individual journey. In coming to terms with this, our relationship has gone from good to great. We have learned that religion doesn't necessarily make a happy marriage. Respect, patience, and love make a happy marriage.
You mentioned "I keep thinking that maybe God is backing the Witnesses because I see evidence of love and harmony that I have not seen in any other religion." Maybe. May I ask though, how many other religions have you closely associated with? Have you spent enough time getting to know people of other religions so as to have enough evidence to say that only JWs experience high levels of love and harmony? And where does the JW unity come from? Do all JWs really believe the same, or, is unity more a reflection of Organizational control?
From my experience, I have found love and harmony in abundance outside of the WT Org. Other religions share the same type of love among members. I have also found love and goodness among the non-religious. As a JW, I have been told that we have something that no one else has. The Org goes to great lengths to tear down other people's belief systems and build up their own. If you pay attention, you may notice a lot of "us vs. them" language. JWs talk about how people of "the world" can't be as happy as them. They paint a picture of "worldly" people being miserable and lost. On the other hand, they build up JWs as the happiest people who have real hope and real "truth." It's "JWs vs. everyone who isn't a JW." I don't find that approach to be very Christian, let alone beneficial to humanity in general. Once I dropped the attitude that I was somehow superior and special just because I was part of a certain religious group, I began to notice that many people outside of the JWs are really happy. They do live good lives. They do have hope. We can learn so much from everyone but only if we drop the idea that we're the only ones with "truth." This is not to say that there aren't good aspects to being a JW. I'm only saying if love and harmony are evidence of God's hand, then I see God's hand working everywhere, not just in the WT Org.
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Awesome quote from the Watchtower!
by TimothyT ini found this awesome quote from the book captives of a concept:.
beware of "organization.
it is wholly unnecessary.
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Franklin Massey
It's a repeat cycle with religion in general. Anytime a religion goes beyond principles and starts clamping down with official and "unquestionable" doctrines, weighty rules, demands for strict obedience to leaders, and "us vs. them" speech - it becomes nearly valueless. The principles become drowned in the flood. The sad thing is that it's the earnest followers who end up getting hurt the most.
As good as this quote from Russell is, we have to remember that he was also borrowing from other apocalyptic groups and creating wild end-of-days theories based on numerology and pyramidology. Just goes to show that that there is no such thing as the "one true religion."
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"Offer for July" - what should i do???
by Lied2NoMore ini have the service mtg part tonight..."the offer for july" which is the "was life created" brochure which has the flawed .
statement about a large sized spiderweb stopping a jumbo jet mid-flight.
the society has offered a retraction of the .
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Franklin Massey
That brochure SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS.
It is designed to seem reasonable but when it gets into the real issues surrounding the evolution/creation controversy (which, in light of actual evidence, is hardly controversial at all) it blatantly disregards the abundant proof for evolution, shows incredible ingnorance of the real story of the natural selection process, and then serves to confuse the reader with out-of-context information and logical gap jumping.
I'm glad you didn't have to give that part.
As for your "Project Mayhem" aspirations...relax. Don't do anything illegal.
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Undercover Brother Campaign- have you received your invite?
by stuckinamovement inwithout specifics being mentioned as to what it is......(to avoid tipping off certain lurkers).. how many people know about the upcoming summer long campaign?
please use this thread to confirm receipt of your campaign invitation.
take care.
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Franklin Massey
Looking forward to seeing how this goes at my DC. I don't have high expectations but I'm sure some decent experiences will surface by the end of summer.
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just created a site www.jwfacts.com
by jwfacts ini just put together a site that tries to logically show the witnesses are not the true religion.
just wondering how to get the information out to people that most need it.
also any ideas on how to get the site found by search engines.
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Franklin Massey
I never had the chance to thank the creator of www.jwfacts.com for all the time and effort that went in to creating the site. That is, until now. I can truly say that it was a HUGE part of me waking up. Being a born-in, I had many questions about JW teachings that kept coming back throughout my life. I would just rationalize, distract myself, and bury any doubts. Trust the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Wait on Jehovah. I prayed to Jehovah to help me find the answers to my questions, if they were at all available. I prayed and I searched. Prayed and searched. In my searching, I came across some over-the-top, blatantly apostate websites. I was scared to look any deeper at those type of sites because the seemed (laughing about it now) "so demonic." But JWFacts used an approach that made me a bit more comfortable. Extensive quotes from JW materials with a little bit of reasonable commentary. The best part for me was to see all of the changes in understanding of the years, many of which shattered the illusion of progressive "new light," and rather showed indecision, uncertainty, and reactionary change. After much study and comparing the quotes on JWFacts to those in the WT (to make sure they hadn't been altered), I began to think, "If God really is in control of this organization, he is doing a lousy job." I couldn't imagine God making so many mistakes. I couldn't imagine God allowing his chosen representatives to make so many mistakes. Holy spirit should be more powerful than this. From that point on, I could never go back. I couldn't undo what I had learned.
So, thanks.
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So It Begins...
by TimothyT inall i can say is lol!!!.
so... i have been outed... im gay, and at least one elder now knows!.
while i was at bingo tonight with jack i recieved a call from him.
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Franklin Massey
Tim,
You have progressed quickly since we first talked a while back. It seems that you don't feel there is a place for you in the Watchtower Organization. You may be right. If you're happy and confident of your decisions and the outcomes they will bring, then just proceed with your life and don't look back. If you don't want to remain a JW, then make a clean break, physically AND mentally. This type of situation has the potential to plague you for years - if you allow it to. You have the power to take control and leave it all behind.
If you find the rules of a certain group to be invalid, then don't worry about how that group will go about trying to enforce their rules on you. You don't play their game anymore.
If you find that you no longer want to be a part of a group because you can't conscientiously profess to believe their doctrine, then just walk away and let them sort it out.
_____
@yourmomma - You said, But in 50 years I think (hopefully) we may look back as a society and be like "wow, they did that to gay people" just like they look back at the civil rights stuff like "wow they did that to black people". I used that same line of reasoning in a group discussion with JWs when I refused to condemn same-sex marriage. They said, "But there is a BIG difference! We know it's wrong to be racist. We would never deny someone rights based on the color of their skin. We also know it's wrong to practice homosexuality." I said, "We're not talking about morals. We're talking about human rights. Just because someone chooses a different moral path than you, doesn't mean they should be excluded from basic human rights." They huffed. They claimed that comparing gay rights to the African-American civil rights struggle was unfair. They said that JWs stand firm in their standards, even if the morals of the world are in "decline." "God's standards don't change!" They said that JWs have always had this stance on homosexuality. I asked, "What if JWs taught that Africans were an inferior people and that when paradise came, their skin would turn white? Would you align yourself with that idea?" They said I was crazy! They said I was going out on a wild tangent to try to prove a point. I said, "Clearly, you don't know that early JWs used to teach just that. It was published in the magazines. You can look it up for yourself." They said, "Well, we used to celebrate Christmas too. They had a lot of changes to make." I said, "So you don't think that in the future, we may have to make changes on how we treat issues relating to gay people, similar to the way the had to drop the racist view of blacks?" No comments from that point on. I'm pretty sure none of them ever looked up the old magazines either. It's easier to write me off as being "too liberal" and an "independent thinker." The scary part is, if they are willing to let the WT Society do their thinking for them on gay rights issues, then they likely would have been a part of the civil rights problem back then too.
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Undercover Brother Campaign- have you received your invite?
by stuckinamovement inwithout specifics being mentioned as to what it is......(to avoid tipping off certain lurkers).. how many people know about the upcoming summer long campaign?
please use this thread to confirm receipt of your campaign invitation.
take care.
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Franklin Massey
Please PM me.
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Are JW EX elders in need of our contempt or sympathy ?
by eruption inpoint 1. not so long i would have strung them all up and hanged them.. point 2. these guys were the real succers, not only did they become jw,s, they embraced and adopted the cults teachings, and to some extent subjugated thier familys happiness, and thier own,to elevate themselves, and achieve status and recieve privellages, ie not have a f-----g life.
point 3 they had the onerus task of making sense, of the ever changing (truths) and having to teach that crap to the rest of us, and cope with the subsequent questionings that would invariably follow.. point 4.they had to take the lead in (sales) distributing literature.
point 5.they were the authoritarian face of the society, and a lot of people, (myself included ) thought they were jumped up janitors and window cleaners with a chip on thier shoulders.
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Franklin Massey
As a recently resigned elder, I'll weigh in, for what it's worth.
Point 1. Not so long I would have strung them all up and hanged them.
Ha! No comment.
point 2. These guys were THE real succers, not only did they become JW,s, they embraced and adopted the cults teachings, and to some extent subjugated thier familys happiness, and thier own,to Elevate themselves, and achieve status and recieve privellages, IE not have a F-----g life
I was born-in and heavily indoctrinated. I had to find out everything about the real WT Org on my own as an adult. Looking back, I do feel like a sucker. I never had the desire to "elevate" myself or "achieve status." I thought that my increased level of service was actually putting myself below my brothers and sisters. I had to work hard and put up with a lot stress induced headaches. Priveleges = work. I was happy to work for the good of the congregation.
point 3 They had the onerus task of making sense, of the Ever changing (Truths) and having to teach that crap to the rest of us, and cope with the subsequent questionings that would invariably follow.
This is where I began to have my conscience bothered. When I began deep research into the history and teachings of the WT, I became troubled with what I found out. I was personally responsible for teaching the JW doctrine, much of which I either didn't believe, or wasn't sure enough about to speak with conviction. This ultimately led to my resignation.
point 4.They had to take the lead in (Sales) distributing literature
For this, I'm sorry. I barely go out in the ministry anymore myself. As I was becoming more aware of the gap between my personal beliefs and those of the WT, I began to soften my approach in Service Meeting parts. I would cover the required material (featured offers, new procedures, start studies, start studies, start studies) and then always conclude by saying something like, "Maybe this approach is not for you. Maybe you feel that your abilities in the ministry may be different than suggested here in the KM. If so, find something you are comfortable with and work with that. We all know what we're personally capable of and should work within the boundaries of our own strengths and weaknesses." I had a lot of friends thank me for those words. It showed me how burdened some of the friends are by the constant push to do more and more.
Point 5.They were the Authoritarian Face of the Society, and a lot of people, (myself included ) thought they were ju mped up janitors and window cleaners with a chip on thier shoulders. (many are )
I'm a college educated business professional. I had no desire to be any sort of authority in the Org. But as much as I tried to avoid it, some people hear the title of elder and think, "AUTHORITY." This is another reason I stepped down.
point 6.Many of them are arseholes, but equally many really tried the best they could, under immposible circumstances.So to you guys. I tip my hat to you, I will never know you nor meet you, but I wish you well.
I can be a jerk sometimes. But I always tried to keep my jerkiness to myself, especially when dealing with congregational matters. You're right about "impossible circumstances." These positions should not be occupied my imperfect men. Unfortunately, imperfect men is all there is to work with.